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How Good Was the WHA: The Top Players

The World Hockey Association (1972–1979) was the one serious attempt to compete with the National Hockey League since the reign of George V. From their first season to the last they had real hockey markets and real stars, beginning with Bobby Hull and ending with Wayne Gretzky. They played exhibitions against the NHL, regular season games against European national teams, and a Summit Series of their own against the Soviets. They tried the shootout, they tried blue pucks, they tried cheerleaders, they tried some of the most flamboyant sweaters in hockey history, name it and they probably tried it. Not coincidentally they embodied a chintzy sleaze of bounced cheques, naming their championship trophy after a financial services company, and playing in some of the worst arenas to allegedly host major-league hockey since the invention of artificial ice.

The year before joining the Winnipeg Jets Bobby Hull had tied for second in the NHL in goals and was seventh in points. Hull was 33 when the WHA began play; so while not nearly washed-up he was entering the downswing of his career. One of the few non-hair-dye users on Hull’s last Black Hawks team was a 26-year-old named André Lacroix, Prior to joining the WHA Lacroix had been an elite, but hardly superlative, junior player, and in five NHL seasons he achieved only a little. Then, in seven WHA seasons, he recorded 251 goals and 798 points in 551 games with a +22, leading the league in all-time scoring, winning two season titles, and being twice named MVP. Returning to the NHL after the merger, he lasted less than a season. Hull scored fewer points, but in fewer games, and with a better points-per-game. Hull won WHA championships; Lacroix never even made a final, though it was hardly his fault. Hull was one of the great shooters of all time, Lacroix a playmaker. You can pick either one for the WHA’s greatest forward, but what does it say about the league to discuss an old, bald man and a definitely second-rate NHLer in such terms?

Was the WHA a major hockey league, not as good as the NHL, but worthy to be held alongside it? In this series I will answer “yes, obviously.” However, the best possible reason for instinctive doubt is the quality of its marquee players. Lacroix, though a pretty good NHL player, was nobody’s idea of a superstar. Hull was, but he was also old. And their best defenseman was J. C. Tremblay, a six-time NHL All-Star and Norris finalist in the Bobby Orr years, but he was 34 when he joined the WHA and put up superstar numbers. Tremblay twice led the whole league in assists and won the best defenseman award, the last at age 36. If your all-time stars, your Alex Ovechkin, Bobby Orr, and Wayne Gretzky, are an old Hull, an old Tremblay, and André Lacroix, can you really be a major league?

In baseball the concept of a “major league” is historically important. There was more major league baseball in its formative years than what we see today, and a handful of long-defunct leagues established records and legends that are still remembered. The American and National Leagues were distinct enough to affect history until, at the latest, 2022. A “major league” is in the record books. Everyone knows that, in 1941, Ted Williams became the last major league player to hit .400 in a season. This record lasted until December 2020, when Major League Baseball announced that the seven historic negro leagues were also major league baseball and the last .400 hitter was therefore Josh Gibson of the 1943 Homestead Grays. Well, nobody much cared for Teddy Ballgame anyway, but the point is that in baseball, the phrase “major league” affects how we view the game in hindsight.

In hockey, it matters rather less. While there were other “major” hockey leagues in the days of the rover, hockey was so different then and the leagues so short-lived that it’s of less interest. Counting the WHA as a major league means you can say “well actually the major league leader in goals scored is still Gordie Howe with 975” and that Alex Ovechkin hasn’t even caught Wayne Gretzky for second, it means that Jim Harrison and not Darryl Sittler had the first major-league ten-point game, it means that Lacroix held the single-season assist record for a hot minute before Gretzky removed all doubt, but it will never be more than trivia. Only the WHA’s most ardent defenders will say that it was as good as the NHL, a more stable league with more great players and more teams. Many WHA stars were flashes in the pan, of the sort the NHL has always had, who stand out because the WHA lasted seven seasons and the NHL has lasted more than a century. The fact that the NHL dominates history is not really unjust. But if the WHA was a major league, it will affect how we view a few things, a few players. You may not come away insisting Gordie Howe was a greater sniper than Alex Ovechkin, but you’ll come away with something.

Baseball’s Union Association is a look at what a major league isn’t1. Playing one season in the 19th century, the Union Association was counted in the encyclopedias as “major league baseball” since at least 1922 and often still is (on baseball-reference.com, for example), but Bill James has made the strong case that it is not. The Union Association played one season, 1884, the brainchild of an odd St. Louis millionaire who like a bad online league commissioner loaded up his team with all the star power available and let the others quit at leisure.

The Union Association had big-league players. James counted 272 players who played at least once in the UA; 179 of them either had no other major league experience or mere cups-of-coffee, there were 53 otherwise-fringe major leaguers, 26 players who had been or would be major-leaguers but were either too old or too young at the time, 14 “legitimate major league players,” and, for James, zero stars2. The WHA did have NHL stars; besides Hull and Tremblay, Gerry Cheevers, Bernie Parent, Derek Sanderson, and Paul Henderson played in the WHA in their prime. But several major-leaguers, in both the UA and WHA, put up numbers way above their otherwise-established level, while no established pros that James could found particularly disappointed in the UA and few did so in the WHA. As James put it:

Doesn’t it seem pretty obvious what the level of competition in that league was? It was a league that made .270 hitters into .400 hitters, and .450 pitchers into Sandy Koufax. In modern baseball, Al Martin is a career .280 hitter. Let me ask you: if there was a new league now, and if Al Martin hit .400 in that league, and Donovan Osborne went 23–4, would you accept that as a major league?3

A major league, to Bill James, does not turn major league mediocrities into superstars. Did the WHA turn mediocrities into superstars? Before answering we have to note that the WHA was a higher-scoring league than the NHL; about 10% more goals per game4. There were a few reasons for this: the WHA, seeking fan attention, was more likely to give big money to an offensive star than a defensive one5, the WHA tended to play in smaller, eccentric rinks that favoured goal-scoring, the WHA legalized a greater curve on stick blades than the NHL did (basically to make Bobby Hull happy), and much of the WHA’s star power was tied up in teenagers, who tend to be effective offensive players before they’re effective defensive ones. However, the WHA numbers, while higher than the NHL’s, were not gaudy: it was only once as much as a goal per game. By 1980–81, there were as many goals in the NHL as there had been in the WHA, and in the eighties it only went up from there.

Applying the WHA-to-NHL point adjustment to the career of André Lacroix, let’s see what we get. All WHA numbers are adjusted to match the per-game scoring rates in the NHL that season, and just to make sure you don’t forget the WHA numbers are in italics.

André Lacroix
Season Team League Age GP G A Pts
1967–68 Philadelphia NHL 22 18 6 8 14
1968–69 Philadelphia NHL 23 75 24 32 56
1969–70 Philadelphia NHL 24 74 22 36 58
1970–71 Philadelphia NHL 25 78 20 22 42
1971–72 Chicago NHL 26 51 4 7 11
1972–73 Philadelphia WHA 27 78 46 68 114
1973–74 New York/New Jersey WHA 28 78 27 70 97
1974–75 San Diego WHA 29 80 38 98 136
1975–76 San Diego WHA 30 80 26 66 92
1976–77 San Diego WHA 31 81 29 74 103
1977–78 Houston WHA 32 78 30 65 95
1978–79 New England WHA 33 78 30 53 83
1979–80 Hartford NHL 34 29 3 14 17

Set aside Chicago as a disaster; Danny O’Shea, Lou Angotti, and Eric Nesterenko outperformed Lacroix there and were nowhere near as good as him in the WHA. Then, Lacroix’s adjusted improvement in the WHA is very large but less unreal. Though Lacroix washed out of the NHL rather abruptly after the merger, he was ’80s Old and even so a half-point-per-game player. Before this, Lacroix’s NHL teams tended to be projects. Lacroix led the Flyers in scoring in 1968–69 and 1969–70, not that it was much to be proud of since they were terrible, but he was top-30 in NHL scoring both years. When Bobby Clarke got good he bumped Lacroix down the depth chart but fair enough, it was Bobby Clarke. Even then, Lacroix was a darned useful second line player and actually contributed more on the power play than Clarke did.

1974–75 was Lacroix’s best season. His real numbers, 41 goals and 106 assists for 147 points, set the major league record for assists in a season; the first 100-assist season by somebody other than Bobby Orr. Our adjustment brings him below the totemic three digits and puts him in reasonable company. Adam Oates had 97 once, Doug Gilmour had 95, Ron Francis had 92. Lacroix and Oates are excellent comparables: smaller forwards but surprisingly injury-free, put on this earth to be playmakers, superb at faceoffs, better defensively than you might expect, always useful on the penalty kill, and for all their talent, if either was your best player you weren’t good enough to win. Oates was better, and he played forever while Lacroix got old in the usual ’80s time, but they were of a family.

Minor leaguers couldn’t do that. The top two scorers in the AHL that year were Doug Gibson and Peter Sullivan, who both cracked 100 points. Gibson was nobody much. Sullivan was nearly a point-per-game guy in the WHA but wasn’t within ten miles of Lacroix. Many top AHL scorers of the early ’70s tried their luck in the WHA; some were good, most washed out fairly early, and none was even briefly Lacroix’s equal. Meanwhile, Lacroix was setting up Wayne Rivers for 54 goals and Dick Sentes for 44; well beyond their skill. Lacroix was obviously quite a lot better than minor league stars.

Nor was Lacroix the rule of middling NHLers becoming great WHAers, he was the exception. The WHA was for Lacroix the right place at the right time. He did not dominate the league: he was very, very good, but more by consistency than the hockey equivalent of hitting .400. Quadruple-A snipers like Rivers, Sentes, Danny Lawson, Gene Peacosh, and a young Morris Lukowich put banana curves on their blades, shot 20%, and Lacroix fed them. For every Lacroix ten contemporaries like Bill Lesuk, Mike Laughton, Norm Ferguson, Gerry Pinder, etc. etc., who from their NHL stats you might think could stand in with Lacroix, failed to do so. Lacroix clicked; a unique example of an NHL journeyman with sustained WHA superstardom.

We can get another view by doing the same stats stunt with Bobby Hull, comparing his NHL and adjusted-WHA career.

Bobby Hull
Season Team League Age GP G A Pts
1957–58 Chicago NHL 19 70 13 34 47
1958–59 Chicago NHL 20 70 18 32 50
1959–60 Chicago NHL 21 70 39 42 81
1960–61 Chicago NHL 22 67 31 25 56
1961–62 Chicago NHL 23 70 50 34 84
1962–63 Chicago NHL 24 65 31 31 62
1963–64 Chicago NHL 25 70 43 44 87
1964–65 Chicago NHL 26 61 39 32 71
1965–66 Chicago NHL 27 65 54 43 97
1966–67 Chicago NHL 28 66 52 28 80
1967–68 Chicago NHL 29 71 44 31 75
1968–69 Chicago NHL 30 74 58 49 107
1969–70 Chicago NHL 31 61 38 29 67
1970–71 Chicago NHL 32 78 44 52 96
1971–72 Chicago NHL 33 78 50 43 93
1972–73 Winnipeg WHA 34 63 47 48 95
1973–74 Winnipeg WHA 35 75 47 37 84
1974–75 Winnipeg WHA 36 78 71 60 131
1975–76 Winnipeg WHA 37 80 48 64 112
1976–77 Winnipeg WHA 38 34 19 29 48
1977–78 Winnipeg WHA 39 77 39 60 99
1978–79 Winnipeg WHA 40 4 2 3 5
1979–80 Winnipeg NHL 41 18 4 6 10
1979–80 Hartford NHL 41 9 2 5 7

Even adjusted for inflation the Golden Jet was a very precious metal. Moving from the NHL to the WHA was for Hull not a step from a major league to a minor league, but more a delaying of the aging process. Even his monster 1974–75, adjusted to NHL scoring levels, would not have won the Art Ross Trophy. In fact, a cynical space alien could turn the 1974–75 season on its head: how good could the NHL have been when a blueliner won the scoring title in his last full season before his knees totally gave way, and a 32-year-old Phil Esposito won the goal-scoring crown with his second straight 60-goal season? You never would say that, because it’s Bobby Orr and Phil Esposito, but 32 combined major-league teams did weird things to everyone’s legacy. Hull’s career as the sniper-of-snipers only changed when he really got old and the great Winnipeg Swedes, Anders Hedberg and Ulf Nilsson, became the lynchpins: when the Swedes went to the NHL, Hull got hurt more (or played through the pain less) but still contributed when he appeared.

There was, as far as I could tell, one goal by Bobby Hull with the first assist by André Lacroix in the history of the World Hockey Association, and you can watch it on YouTube; it is exactly the goal you’d want it to be, Lacroix dogged, adroit, and showing great vision to set up an onrushing Hull for a one-timer past some Russian guy named Tretiak, over in a flash6.

Nobody this far into a post about the World Hockey Association needs to be told that Bobby Hull was an all-time great player. The question is whether Hull’s late-career success in the WHA suggests that it was a minor league. It’s subjective, but the difference between the majors and the minors is feet, not inches. Hull was an excellent old player. He was one of the best wingers in the NHL at age 33, he led the 1974 WHA Team Canada-Soviet Union Friendship Series in scoring against a Soviet team that was as good as 19727, he was one of Canada’s top players at the 1976 Canada Cup swimming in a sea of NHLers, and as late as January 1978 he had a hat trick and an assist for Winnipeg against a “Soviet Nationals” team that was not far off Olympic strength8. Even in his last year, when he was 41, had enjoyed one good season in the past three, and hockey was as tough a game as it had been for eight years, Hull managed .630 points per game, which figures to a 50-point season over 80 games and is no-doubt-about-it NHL quality. Sure, the WHA was not as good as the NHL, but in the NHL Bobby Hull was amazing and in the WHA he could be amazing a few years longer; that’s all it was.

This takes us to our token blueliner. In the WHA’s inaugural draft the Quebec Nordiques claimed every French-Canadian player they could find in the phone book. The only two non-French Canadians in their first fourteen picks were Pie McKenzie, who played in the WHA but not for Quebec, and career minor-leaguer Gerry Teeple, who at least played in the QMJHL. They drafted André Lacroix, though they didn’t try to sign him. They drafted Guy Lapointe, Jacques Lemaire, Pierre Bouchard, Guy Lafleur, and Rejean Houle off the Habs and got only Houle. They drafted top prospect Jacques Richard (no relation to either Rocket) and didn’t get him, though it might have been better for everyone if they had. They brought Maurice Richard in to coach before he realized what a terrible idea that was, then the next year hired Jacques Plante, which was worse because Plante had the same reluctance to coach without the integrity to quit9. The only owner of skates in the province of Quebec they didn’t try to draft was Canadiens defenseman J. C. Tremblay, who was the most important one of all.

J. C. Tremblay
Season Team League Age GP G A Pts
1959–60 Montreal NHL 21 11 0 1 1
1960–61 Montreal NHL 22 30 1 3 4
1961–62 Montreal NHL 23 70 3 17 20
1962–63 Montreal NHL 24 69 1 17 18
1963–64 Montreal NHL 25 70 5 16 21
1964–65 Montreal NHL 26 68 3 17 20
1965–66 Montreal NHL 27 60 6 29 35
1966–67 Montreal NHL 28 60 8 26 34
1967–68 Montreal NHL 29 73 4 26 30
1968–69 Montreal NHL 30 75 7 32 39
1969–70 Montreal NHL 31 58 2 19 21
1970–71 Montreal NHL 32 76 11 52 63
1971–72 Montreal NHL 33 76 6 51 57
1972–73 Quebec WHA 34 75 13 69 82
1973–74 Quebec WHA 35 68 8 39 47
1974–75 Quebec WHA 36 68 15 52 67
1975–76 Quebec WHA 37 80 11 70 81
1976–77 Quebec WHA 38 53 4 28 32
1977–78 Quebec WHA 39 54 4 31 35
1978–79 Quebec WHA 40 56 6 36 42

Has there been anybody in hockey like J. C. Tremblay? A little guy (5’11”) who played even smaller with a first-ballot Hall-of-Fame mustache, Tremblay spent three full seasons in Montreal not particularly impressing anybody. He was overshadowed by those great forwards and was rivaled on D by Jean-Guy Talbot and Jacques Laperriere. Tremblay became number one gradually. He made All-Star Games, he appeared in the Norris voting including second place in 1968–69, people respected him. They could have put his statue up in the Hall of Very Good.

Then, in 1970–71, something happened. From a previous career high of 39 points, Tremblay recorded 63, finished third in the Norris voting behind Orr and Brad Park. He was 32 years old. Then he did it again the next year, 59 points and fifth in the Norris (pretty bloody flattering to Bill White and Pat Stapleton). That year Tremblay was +53, which led the Habs by a mile. The next-best Habs defenseman was Laperriere’s +34, and since you tend to have two defensemen on the ice at a time I’m honestly not sure how Tremblay did that.

Tremblay’s best WHA seasons are absurd, 80-point NHL equivalents at an age most players open car dealerships. He had “old man” skills. Even at his best he was an elegant rather than a fast skater, and in his final seasons he was slower than the Zamboni. He got away with it because he was so often in the right place already: he a hockey IQ perhaps exceeding Orr’s, and a mastery at dictating the pace of play by puck possession. He made the 35-man preliminary roster for the 1972 Summit Series before signing for the WHA ruled him out, and in 1974 he was Canada’s top-scoring defenseman with five points in eight games10. After the ’74 series a Soviet coaching symposium declared Tremblay “the best defenseman they ever saw,” though they hadn’t seen Orr yet and with his puck-possession style Tremblay was a very Soviet type of player.

Game 7 of the 1977 WHA playoff final is on YouTube, Tremblay’s Nordiques against Anders Hedberg, Ulf Nilsson, Bobby Hull, and the Winnipeg Jets. This was after Tremblay started getting hurt and in the first period he looks so old handling the Hot Line, one of the toughest jobs in hockey. A highlight package shows that the Hot Line destroyed Tremblay in game 6, aggressive forechecking overwhelming the veteran for a few goals against, and in game 7 they try the same tactics. Except somehow, this time, they never finish the old man off. The Swedes storm over Tremblay, who has certainly not become faster in two days, but as they seem about to break it open Tremblay’s stick slips in there and it doesn’t quite work out; for how comprehensively the Hot Line smothers him Tremblay winds up with possession almost weirdly often. This keeps happening, and the Jets get frustrated and do too much, Tremblay finds breathing room, the first ends scoreless and opening the second Nilsson fumbles the puck to Bob Fitchner, Fitchner scores, and it’s Quebec’s game from there. Quebec won 8–2 and Tremblay scored a goofy goal on a slap shot from the centre dot that dropped right between Joe Daley’s skates11. Hull did not score, Hedberg and Nilsson assisted on a meaningless consolation goal. This was Tremblay close to washed-up: to go by the video he had become so slow that positioning could only do so much, and it’s remarkable that he still posted good results.

He was classically French-Canadian; often helmetless, well-coiffed, creative, daring, classy. But he was quiet country French: he did not smoke and was no party animal. Jean Béliveau supposedly called Tremblay “essentially a shy man, a bit of a loner, who, like a bear, would growl to keep people away.” The best comparison I found was Mark Giordano, but it doesn’t really go: Tremblay had a mediocre shot and while Giordano was also an undersized late offensive bloomer he was always pretty good. Giordano was a quicker skater, a bigger and more physical player, a much better shot, and more the “classic captain.” Hockey-Reference similarity scores suggest Oliver Ekman-Larsson, which is nonsense. Teppo Numminen had the long career and some stylistic similarities but was bigger, had less flash, shot better, was not as good defensively, and had a conventional career arc. Tremblay possessed no quality in abundance except excellence; he may be in a class of one.

Time-on-ice was not kept in the WHA, but Tremblay apparently played all the time for the Nordiques. You probably read “all the time” as poetic license so let me reassure you. Everyone took longer shifts in those days but Marius Fortier swore Tremblay once played 63 minutes in an overtime game, and Richard Brodeur said that Tremblay must have averaged 45 minutes a night at his Nordiques peak12. He was seldom injured until late in his career, which is not to be wondered at since he didn’t skate hard and avoided physical contact like a kid in his first suit, but seeing those crazy-high numbers, remember that people who were there thought Tremblay played much, much more hockey than anybody else. He was simply out there more often to accumulate points. There is at least secondary evidence of this: in his late 30s, when Tremblay got banged up and his games-played totals declined, his points-per-game declined much faster, though they were still of a steady, high quality, which may imply he was no longer up to those long, long games. Another indication: in 1973–74, Tremblay had a relatively-not-amazing season, and that was the year Jacques Plante coached. Well, “coached,” air-quotes: Plante was absent mentally or physically so often that Tremblay and Jean-Guy Gendron did much of the nuts-and-bolts coaching13, and Tremblay may not have called his own number quite so often under the circumstances.

Perhaps a player could play 40 minutes today, but to survive he would have to be Tremblay resurrected, and 5’11” guys who don’t skate well, don’t shoot great, and don’t hit have a hell of a time breaking in long enough to develop the required instincts.

J. C. Tremblay has an attractive Hockey Hall of Fame case. Unique, excellent players should always be remembered. He’s been dead for 30 years and there are no Quebec Nordiques sportswriters to champion him, so he won’t get there, but he was probably the second-best defenseman alive during an era when the best was unassailable. The only other candidate, Brad Park, is in the Hall of Fame. All Tremblay did was arrange the game of hockey so his team would win it. He played on one losing team in 20 seasons. He averaged 0.61 points per game in the Stanley Cup playoffs and 0.74 in the WHA playoffs. He was a Hab during the best times to be a Hab, but also a Nordique when they were run off credit cards and he won there too. At some point, J. C. Superstar deserves a bit of the credit. Once you recognize the WHA as a major league, which it was, Tremblay’s powers come into sharper focus. That Tremblay was so good in the WHA is not an indictment of the WHA; it’s a credit to one of hockey’s underrated stars14.

  1. Every single thing I am about to tell you, every word, comes from: Bill James, The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract (New York: Free Press, 2003), 21–34.
  2. James, 30.
  3. James, 31.
  4. If you want the exact season-by-season figures:
    NHL WHA Adjustment
    Season Games Goals GPG Games Goals GPG WHA-to-NHL NHL-to-WHA
    1972–73 624 4088 6.551 468 3343 7.143 0.917 1.090
    1973–74 624 3989 6.393 468 3405 7.276 0.879 1.138
    1974–75 720 4932 6.850 546 4032 7.385 0.928 1.078
    1975–76 720 4913 6.824 532 3975 7.472 0.913 1.095
    1976–77 720 4783 6.643 465 3429 7.374 0.901 1.110
    1977–78 720 4747 6.593 328 2570 7.835 0.841 1.188
    1978–79 680 4757 6.996 259 1916 7.398 0.946 1.057
    NHL/WHA era 4808 32209 6.699 3066 22670 7.394 0.906 1.104

    All data from Hockey-Reference.com. If the WHA games-played numbers smell wrong, good nose; teams kept folding mid-season and in their last seasons they played regular season series against touring European representative teams.

  5. The most famous big-money WHA player other than Hull was Derek Sanderson, a defensive forward, and it’s not clear whether the Philadelphia Blazers thought Sanderson needed to turn into Phil Esposito or whether because of his big money Sanderson thought so himself; anyway, it to say the very least did not work out.
  6. According to Hockey Reference while with Chicago Lacroix set up Hull for a goal each on November 7 and 21, 1971, both against Pittsburgh, but somehow random 50-year-old Black Hawks-Penguins games seldom make it to YouTube.
  7. Murray Greig, Big Bucks & Blue Pucks (Toronto: Macmillan, 1997), 196.
  8. Greig, 203. Tretiak was there but his long-time understudy Sidelnikov played in goal for the Soviets. Nine Soviet players on that tour would play in the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics, and several of those who did not, including Sidelnikov, were veteran internationals in the process of aging out.
  9. Ed Willes, The Rebel League: The Short and Unruly Life of the World Hockey Association (Toronto: McClelland & Stewart, 2004), 162–163.
  10. Greig, 196.
  11. Tremblay had a famous “dump-in goal” where he’d flop a deceptive bouncer on frame from the neutral zone and get a goal or two a year; this was not that. When assessing Tremblay it is worth remembering that more of his goals than usual would probably have been kept out by the butterfly.
  12. Willes, 170.
  13. Willes, 162–163.
  14. A footnote is all this is worth: there is one game between Tremblay and Lacroix in the WHA on YouTube when Lacroix’s New England Whalers visited Tremblay’s Nordiques on February 6, 1979. Unfortunately “late WHA” is disproportionately well-represented on YouTube, and by 1979 neither Lacroix nor Tremblay were all they once were. In addition, the game was recorded on a bar of soap. Gordie Howe was hurt, though Mark was there, and Jim Corsi, better known for other work (he also played in the original Canadian Soccer League), started in goal for the Nords. Tremblay got turnstiled a couple times, including by Lacroix for a shorthanded goal, but he still got up in the play more than you’d expect from a 40-year-old with the range of me.

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